tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7520303675367700778.post6454199697596187476..comments2024-03-26T22:57:21.033+00:00Comments on Random Views: After Scotland and Turkey, do we all have to become nationalists?David Beesonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00393977902379776532noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7520303675367700778.post-89505855715861146962015-06-10T12:04:54.715+01:002015-06-10T12:04:54.715+01:00Ah, not everything's about you. My main point ...Ah, not everything's about you. My main point was about nationalists being closer to a social democratic message than Labour is, but perhaps you missed that. I quoted you only to show how quickly <i>certain</i> nationalists descend into bile and envy. I don't believe the same is true of most SNP leaders - indeed, I find Salmond and Sturgeon among the most effective political leaders of this generation (I wish Labour could find a leader like Sturgeon), and Salmond, Sturgeon and Yousaf among the most admirable politicians of today. But there is a bile-ridden underbelly of nationalist politics, and your Tweets and this comment of yours exemplify it.<br /><br />For myself, I was furious with Ed Miliband's failure to embrace the offer Sturgeon made to him of cooperation against the Tories. He should have countered the Mail's characterisation of the SNP as ogres. After all, the SNP is only another moderately liberal, moderately social-democratic party, exactly like Labour was and can be again, but overlaid with its nationalist concerns with Scotland only.<br /><br />I think it most unlikely that there will be any kind of major social upheaval in England any time soon. I don't deny that there might be protests, and some of them might even turn ugly. But a real challenge to the current regime? There's little chance of it. You probably misunderstand how deeply ingrained Conservative views are in England. My view is that what we need is a substantial movement at the political level to challenge Tory hegemony, one that can harness disaffection with the current regime, and I see nowhere else it can come from than Labour – after all, the SNP doesn't organise in England. <br /><br />I'm amazed that you call me doom-filled. On the contrary, I'm precisely trying to resist the doom-laden prophecies that many are coming up with – yourself included: "the UK, as it presently exists, has no future". Of course it has a future. It may break up, but not even that is certain. And if it doesn't, it will find a future. "No future", you say, and then accuse me of being doom-filled?<br /><br />However, I do believe personally that Scotland is likely to go. I sympathise with the mood for independence, and wish the Scots success. We then, back in England and Wales, need to work to find a future <i>without</i> Scotland. That's what I, and a lot of others in the Labour Party, are trying to do. Your kind of invective doesn't help, but hey, we're used to it – we get it all the time from the Mail, the Sun or the Express, and we just have to move on. David Beesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00393977902379776532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7520303675367700778.post-45212620321985885752015-06-09T23:02:49.937+01:002015-06-09T23:02:49.937+01:00What a sad and little article. And all based aroun...What a sad and little article. And all based around one Twitter exchange in less than 140 chars. If ever there was a case of shooting the messenger.....<br />The UK, as it presently exists, has no future - of that there is little doubt.<br />Whether by break up as first Scotland and then Wales decide they can do far better themselves or, more likely and what should be of greater concern to Englanders, the inevitable social breakdown that another 5 years of Tory rule will bring.<br />Society is near a tipping point and and hungry frustrated people can only take so much. I believe that the median age for 1st time buyers in the south east is now 38. with that for a future and property ownership the be-all and end-all of aspiration amongst the working class in England, some form of social breakdown is rapidly becoming inevitable.<br />Still the author chooses to whine about a little invective on Twitter - entirely anodyne, compared to the daily outpouring of anti-Scots bile in every comment section of the Mail Express Telegraph and and increasingly, even the so-called enlightened Guardian.Oh dear, I came off second-best on Twitter - best write a doom-filled ego-massaging article on my blog.... From this we are meant to believe that we are a hairs-breadth from Scots socialists suddenly deciding they need to have gas-chambers NOW for their enemies.<br />This petty little squeak of outrage perfectly encapsulates the problems of the Labour Party. THey would rather whine than lok at their own failings, would rather make common cause with the Tories than support any motion, no matter how enlightened if it originated from the SNP benches.<br />Sort out your own problems first, pal and then you can come and tell us all how nasty we are.<br />Best of luck to the Kurds. As one who has worked and traavelled extenxively in Turkey, they need all the help they can get and I fully concur that anything that puts a stop to Erdogans ambitions can only be a good thing.<br />Now step back a little and have a dispassionate look at the political scene in the UK without the knee-jerk SNP-Bad mindset of the present Labour Party. Perhaps you might learn something.<br /><br />It may also help you if you reflect on the fact that the sole remaining Labour MP only scraped in because of tactical voting by former LDs and and present Tories. Murray's seat is no inner-city wasteland, it is in fact a rather prosperous part of Edinburgh and if transported into any English city would be a very safe Tory seat. With the latest polls showing Lab on 19% and Tories on 15%, do not think for one second that the tactical votes that spared Murray will be there next time.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com